The following is my reply to Veit's comment which was a reply to Kos on Veit's blog post at
http://www.onlinerule.com/the-salty-droid/
I originally replied to him on his site. But I'm guessing he didn't like what I had to say. So I think he decided it would be better to delete it. That's cool. I'll just post it here:
Wyrd says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
April 12, 2013 at 5:37 pm
Veit wrote
Maybe I should quote a great line from one of my favorite music groups:
“You can’t shake the Devil’s hand and say you’re only kidding.” — TMBG
Veit wrote
Maybe you should ask for your money back. Or at the least, maybe you should call out those that scammed you.
Veit wrote
Frank Irwin Kern and his ilk are not babies floating in icky bathwater. There kinda like… little baby anti-christs floating in the blood of their victims… or something.
Veit wrote
Yes. The reason is because they lie and misrepresent themselves in order to sell people a dream that can’t ever really be delivered. And then they take the money and run. And you apparently envy them for their sales success. And for some reason you think it’s possible to have the one without the other. (false)
Veit wrote
You remind me of Boromir making his case for how they should take the One Ring and use it for good. I think you’ve been seduced by the siren song of POWER.
Veit wrote
As well they should! If I go to a seminar to learn stuff, then I expect to *just* *learn* *stuff*. I do not expect or need to have gone to a seminar only to be sold something at the end. That’s not right.
Veit wrote
Wait, I’m confused–was the mission here to have a successful online business or was the mission to learn how to be good at selling? The two things are related, sure, but they are definitely not the same thing.
Veit wrote
The reason why people often say “selling is evil” is that the reality is that selling, when it’s not in service of some actual valuable product or service *is* evil. And that’s what the Sturgeon’s Law 90% of sales is all about: selling you noisy shiny crap (or noisy, shiny, crappy ideas) that have no real value to anybody ever.
So: You’re right. Selling, in and of itself, is not evil. But the vast majority of those that rely heavily on salesmanship and selling are doing so because they don’t really have a product or service of value to sell. In this case, they sell the sizzle because they have *no* steak.
Veit wrote
I often agree that complaining and whining are not very helpful. But actually vocalizing that “Hey! That guy over there! He’s a scammer!” or “dude! That thing I bought from that guy was utterly *useless*! Don’t buy from him.” That kind of thing is called: the market voicing its collective discontent.
Now, c’mon, Mr. Veit Business Professional: don’t you know that old maxim, “The customer is always right.” ?
And yet here you are.. trying to silence the customers and telling them that they should learn from the corrupt business practices of evil people. Shame on you. A wizard should know better.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
http://www.onlinerule.com/the-salty-droid/
I originally replied to him on his site. But I'm guessing he didn't like what I had to say. So I think he decided it would be better to delete it. That's cool. I'll just post it here:
Wyrd says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
April 12, 2013 at 5:37 pm
Veit wrote
maybe I should highlight the bit where I say that I disapprove of what they’re doing with their marketing.
Maybe I should quote a great line from one of my favorite music groups:
“You can’t shake the Devil’s hand and say you’re only kidding.” — TMBG
Veit wrote
I have ‘invested’ $2k in Product Launch Formula when I was a complete newbie, and boy, it was useless for a newbie without a list or a product or even any clue how to sell stuff online.
I have ‘invested’ thousands on dodgy coaching, I’ve had all the phone-calls from the boiler rooms, believe you me, I’ve been there.
Maybe you should ask for your money back. Or at the least, maybe you should call out those that scammed you.
Veit wrote
All I’m saying here is this:
don’t take the existence of “the Syndicate” and boiler rooms and IM-scams as an excuse for dumping babies, bathwater ‘n all that good stuff.
Frank Irwin Kern and his ilk are not babies floating in icky bathwater. There kinda like… little baby anti-christs floating in the blood of their victims… or something.
Veit wrote
There is a reason why they’re so successful,
Yes. The reason is because they lie and misrepresent themselves in order to sell people a dream that can’t ever really be delivered. And then they take the money and run. And you apparently envy them for their sales success. And for some reason you think it’s possible to have the one without the other. (false)
Veit wrote
and it’s worth studying what they’re doing (e.g. very effective use of sales-psychology), and then use it for good, not evil.
You remind me of Boromir making his case for how they should take the One Ring and use it for good. I think you’ve been seduced by the siren song of POWER.
Veit wrote
I’ve seen far too many people who say they want to learn how to sell, but they run the moment they sense there’s a pitch coming at the end of a seminar or a webinar.
As well they should! If I go to a seminar to learn stuff, then I expect to *just* *learn* *stuff*. I do not expect or need to have gone to a seminar only to be sold something at the end. That’s not right.
Veit wrote
Fer cryin’ out loud, if you want to learn how to sell,
Wait, I’m confused–was the mission here to have a successful online business or was the mission to learn how to be good at selling? The two things are related, sure, but they are definitely not the same thing.
Veit wrote
observe what successful sellers are doing and learn from it. And if it’s unethical, then don’t do it. But don’t say “selling is evil” and use that as an excuse
The reason why people often say “selling is evil” is that the reality is that selling, when it’s not in service of some actual valuable product or service *is* evil. And that’s what the Sturgeon’s Law 90% of sales is all about: selling you noisy shiny crap (or noisy, shiny, crappy ideas) that have no real value to anybody ever.
So: You’re right. Selling, in and of itself, is not evil. But the vast majority of those that rely heavily on salesmanship and selling are doing so because they don’t really have a product or service of value to sell. In this case, they sell the sizzle because they have *no* steak.
Veit wrote
for not doing anything or worse – complaining and whining about those ‘evil guys’ that are responsible for your lack of success (btw, that comment wasn’t directed at you Kos)
I often agree that complaining and whining are not very helpful. But actually vocalizing that “Hey! That guy over there! He’s a scammer!” or “dude! That thing I bought from that guy was utterly *useless*! Don’t buy from him.” That kind of thing is called: the market voicing its collective discontent.
Now, c’mon, Mr. Veit Business Professional: don’t you know that old maxim, “The customer is always right.” ?
And yet here you are.. trying to silence the customers and telling them that they should learn from the corrupt business practices of evil people. Shame on you. A wizard should know better.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
